Introduction - Subconscious Effect of the Media on our World Perceptions

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Vivian: Hey everybody! Welcome to our very first episode of Another Disney podcast, where we discuss Disney films and their relevance to our everyday lives. I’m your co-host Vivian. 

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Iris: And I’m your other co-host Iris. Today we also invite Christy and Tim to join us as our guests. Welcome guys!

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Christy and Tim: Helloooo

 

Vivian: Everyone has heard of the Disney company. It has become so popular that its influence is so great in our culture. Many people see Disney as a public pedagogy as it takes up a big part of our lives, allowing it to influence how we learn about the world. Although many of us don’t see it, Disney subconsciously affects the way we view the world. 

 

Iris: This reminds me a lot of a lecture called Killing Us Softly I once heard by Jean Kilbourne. Her lecture discussed how media, specifically advertisements, affect our social construct of gender. She said,” Ads tell us who we are, and who we should be.” (5:07) She mentioned that a woman's worth depends on her look, and this is why we keep seeing conventionally beautiful princesses in Disney movies. 

 

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Iris: Growing up on Disney princesses, I can definitely relate to these films making me more feminine and submissive, although I didn’t realize it at the time. With the shift into more progressive and assertive princesses, I was also influenced by them. Early and later films equally influenced my character in very different ways, as one taught me how to be obedient and submissive and the latter showed me a more adventurous and bold side.

 

Vivian: That’s exactly what we will be discussing in our next segment: Cinderella, an early films representing a submissive character, while Tangled, a later film has a princess that is more assertive and headstrong. With that being said, how about we dive in and analyze various Disney characters and how they teach us about gender values.

 

Topic 1: (Cinderella vs. Tangled) The Passive vs The Fighter

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Iris: We’ll start with the gender roles portrayed in Cinderella, a classic fairytale.  So Cinderella is the kind-hearted damsel who has been turned into a servant for the wicked stepmother when her dad passed away. She dreams of her prince charming and a happy ending.  Firstly, let’s talk about the gender values that Cinderella represents. She cannot be the heroine but rather requires a hero. Adhere to the stereotype: where the female is expected to be delicate and helpless, and the male is expected to be strong, brave, and be the provider.

 

Christy: Yeah I noticed that too.  In one scene: Cinderella gets bossed around by her stepfamily and when she asked permission to go to the ball, she was so delighted that she was given a chance to go after finishing her chores. This passivity demonstrated by Cinderella as she doesn’t put up a fight against these unfair treatments with a smile on her face. Cinderella is a representation of gender values at the time, as people valued obedient girls who blindly followed ridiculous orders. 

 

Vivian: What you said  reminded me of a podcast I listened to called “Cinderella”. They mentioned research by England deCart saying “Cinderella demonstrates the most submissiveness of any character in any film they looked at” (Casey, R. & Casey, E. 13:30). Being a Disney classic, people have rewatched this film many times and passed it onto their kids, so this message of women being passive is constantly and subconsciously being passed down from one generation to the next and these lessons are being reinforced as the films are rewatched

 

Iris: Something else I noticed was that the film emphasized that love equals marriage and without marriage, you won’t be happy.  There’s a quote from the blog that I read. Serena van der Woodsen: "Cinderella's seemingly only ambition, and one that is heavily expected from women and has been for centuries, is to get married. Marriage is the ultimate end goal in this film and is the key to Cinderella's happily ever after, and it is Prince Charming and only Prince Charming that can give that to her." I think this message will influence the young audiences in a bad way, as they usually follow the princesses as models for their behaviors. 

 

Christy: To expand on what you just said, in the same podcast Vivian mentioned before, they talk about Cinderella’s marriage as a result of the King’s dream of his son getting married and having grandchildren. They further explore the idea to include that Cinerella is a servant to her step family and her dream is of love, of marriage, which would lead her to be a servant to her husband’s family. It sends a poor message to impressible girls that their sole purpose in society is to serve and bear a child. This traditional idea may still exist today.

 

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Iris: Yeah I think the gender roles have been changing over time as society’s values become more progressive. The earlier movies showed very stereotypical feminine traits. But later princesses seem to possess both feminine and traditionally masculine traits. The dynamic between the woman and the man shifts as well as they become equals, instead of one being seen as a damsel and the other as the knight in shining armor.

 

Christy: I totally agree with your ideas. Tangled represents a drastic improvement over the lessons taught by Cinderella. I believe this film was released in 2010, in which it centers on Rapunzel fighting to pick her own fate, instead of staying manipulated by Mother Gothel.  There’s a scene from Tangled that shows Rapunzel’s bravery: To defend herself, Rapunzel ties up Flynn because he breaks into her home. She uses her witts to blackmail him and gets what she wants. Looking back at the other movies, I would not expect a princess to save herself from the situation alone. This particular scene demonstrates her aggressiveness instead of waiting to be saved. 

 

Iris: Your description of the scene reminds me of the aspect of relationships between the male characters and the princesses. Flynn and Rapunzel, bonded over the struggles that they overcame together. Rapunzel’s original goal was not looking for a romance, but instead, she’s busy fighting for her dream. This particular Disney princess finds her place in the story as an independent woman. As a result, Flynn values Rapunzel as a unique human being and falls in love with her because he is genuinely interested. I just love how this romance story wasn’t love at first sight for them. There is no more dream, but their love grows gradually from real situations that they went through with each other. 

 

Topic 2: The portrayal of female characters have been changed  (The Princess and The Frog)

 

Vivian: for this segment, we will invite back Tim and Christy to talk about the Princess and the frog.

 

Iris: I love the transition in the females’ personalities and actions. Do you guys know any other Disney princess that illustrates modern society’s value? 

 

Tim: Oh remember the movie Princess and the Frog? Tiana is an independent and empowered woman who is able to break the typical princess trope.

 

Iris: Yeah, you’re right. That was one of my favorite films to watch when I was young. 

 

Christy: Yeah I think Tiana is different from the early princesses because she actively tries to change her situation and takes control of her destiny. Tiana is described as a hardworking waitress who dreams of opening her own restaurant. I also read an essay by Haas and Trapdeo. In the analysis, they wrote that “independence is power, success doesn’t come easy, and relationships take work.”

 

Tim: I agree with your point about the independence of Tiana. Something I want to complement is that in the movie, Tiana does not ask for any help from her best friend Charlotte who lives in a rich family, even though it could take her a long time to realize her dream by her own effort. There is one line from her dialogue that demonstrates this independence: “The only way to get what you want in this world is through hard work.” In contrast, Cinderella could change her life mainly because of the help from her godmother and animals. Without their help, she would still be the female who takes charge of all the housework and tolerates the unjust in her family.

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Iris: I really like the connection you made between the two of them to show how opposite they really are. Tiana really does resemble an independent entrepreneur as she does everything herself, and Cinderella is quite the opposite as she waits for magic or love to fix everything in her life. I thought Charlotte herself was a very interesting character because she represented values opposite of Tiana. What do you think Tim?

 

Tim: Moreover, I would like to discuss Charlotte (Tiana’s best friend), a flat character but maintains a special role in The Princess and the Frog.  According to the podcast I listened to, “Dissecting Disney: feminism in the Princess and the Frog,” they point out the similarity she has with the past Disney princesses. This comparison is very clear in the movie when she says “I would kiss a hundred frogs so far to meet a prince and to be a princess”. Interestingly, this also becomes her only goal throughout the movie which is to be the princess. I think here Disney is trying to use this character to deny the value they built for females in the past and create a clear contrast with Tiana. 

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Christy: The contrast between Charlotte and Tiana is apparent. There is one moment from the movie where Tiana shows her dislike for fairy tales and stories about a man saving a woman at a young age. When Charlotte said the prince would come to her dad’s party, Tiana refused to go because it was none of her interest. As you mentioned, Charlotte dreams to become a princess even if she has to kiss frogs. On the other hand, Tiana is in complete shock when she hears that. As she exclaims:” There is no way in this whole wide world I would ever, ever, ever, I mean, never kiss a frog. Yuck!”  In a blog I read by Ana Mejia, she wrote, “Through Tiana’s disgust and rejection of the “kissing a frog to get a prince” idea, she is also rejecting the idea of needing a prince to save her”, which is the complete reverse of what Cinderella thinks. Cinderella was willing to literally just sit and wait for her prince.  When Tiana grows older, her top priority is owning her own restaurant. She strays away from what society believes a woman must do: a marriage. Even though her mother expresses that she wants grandchildren, so Tiana should settle down and find her own Prince charming, Tiana disregards the advice immediately.  In this case, Tiana also presents the idea that females have the right to choose, just like she doesn’t choose to get married. (and in this case, she chooses not to get married. )She firmly believes that people around her would stop judging when she succeeds in being a businesswoman. 

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Iris: All of those are great examples to show that Disney tries to create a new role model for the princesses. Specifically, Tiana’s portrayal of gender roles shifted the roles of females to be seen as courageous and more ambitious, setting a good example for young girls to follow. 

 

Topic 3: Iron Man: From Toxic Masculinity to Healthy Masculinity 

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Vivian: Now that we have focused on Disney Princesses and how the norms for women have changed throughout the Disney franchise, as demonstrated through the analysis of older and new films, we’ll shift our focus to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Now we’ll finally dive into men’s norms portrayed by the films as exemplified through the leader of the Avengers, Iron Man. Here to talk about Iron Man with us is our guest speaker Tim with us again. 

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Tim: Hi, everyone.

 

Vivian: Do you wanna start off with a summary of the movie for those that haven’t watched it yet. 

 

Tim: Alright, where to begin. There’s a lot to cover, but I’ll try to keep it short. Tony Stark was the main character in the Iron Man series and the one who wore the Iron man suit. He was a playboy getting his riches off building weapons, with little regard to the destruction it caused. His sole purpose in life was making money and living life, until he went face to face with the weapon he created. He was inspired to build weapons to fight evil, showing the start of his character development. Spoiler alert: his journey ends in Endgames as the Avengers came together to take on Thanos again. He sacrifices his own life for the world.

 

Vivian: Throughout the films you can really see his progression as he displays less toxic masculine characteristics. The character development works to show how even heroes can display characteristics of toxic masculinity. This change throughout the films is a method of teaching the audience the difference between toxic and healthy masculinity.

 

Tim: Exactly, in the beginning, He is proud of having several relationships with females (2:07). He could miss his awarding ceremony for gambling with his girls (06:40). When he is leaving, he could stop for an interview when his guard tells him that the reporter is cute (07:40). Letting Pepper, his assistant, help him send the girl out also showed that he is an irresponsible person. After he was attacked and almost lost his life by the terrorist that used the weapons from his company, he realized that he needed to change.

 

Vivian: Although he changes and decides to be a hero, he does continue to demonstrate traits of toxic masculinity, which is something I think is important to remember. Recall at the end of Iron Man 1, Tony Stark reveals he is Iron Man with the infamous line “I am Iron Man” (1:57:13). The entire scene demonstrates his egoistical side and demonstrates one of his desires to be a hero is for fame. He risks the lives of the people around him to feed his ego. This has deep contrast when he reiterates this line as he sacrifices himself (2:30:31). Although these are the same words uttered by Tony Stark, they hold different meanings and different impacts on the audience. This deeply contrasts with him in the beginning as he isn’t doing it for fame, but truly out of protection and love for his family. In the beginning, those words put the ones he loves in danger, but in the end the words are used to save the ones he loves. He displays healthy masculinity in this scene as he attempts to save his family, it’s no longer about him, the money or the girls, but about being a good man to Pepper.

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Tim: It’s funny that you mention Pepper. A big part of his growth does come from his relationship with her. In “Masculinity, Marvel-Style'' by Matt Cates, the article discusses Iron Man’s "growth in terms of his masculinity, is his slow shift towards a monogamous relationship, when he discovers (over the course of several films) the value of actually letting himself be close to another person" which superhero's growth in masculinity. This relates back to what we both said as he becomes more connected to the ones he loves.

 

Vivian: What’s interesting is that this character shift allows the audience to clearly see which characteristics are good and bad within one person. Although these characteristics co-exist, the development is a signal of which one is good and valued in society. Through Iron Man’s actions the audience subconsciously learns that being a playboy, having little attachment and care to the world around you is bad. These were characteristics once valued in men by society. As times changed and so did Iron Man, so we see masculinity as exemplified through strong relationships and sacrificing for your loved ones. What do you think about this?

 

Tim: You could really see his healthy masculinity develop as he puts all his trust in Pepper.  According to “The Hypermasculine Iron Man: A Man with a Heart,” Iron man builds a tighter relationship with Pepper after the attack, because Tony not only put his work on her, but also his life. We could see this responsibility when Tony asks her to change the arc reactor, the thing keeps his heart bump. He starts to realize that he no longer needs those girls to fill his life, Pepper, who helps him in everything and tolerates his every disadvantage, becomes enough for him. It is Pepper who truly caused him to demonstrate characteristics of healthy masculinity as his love for her caused him to sacrifice everything to protect her.

 

Vivian: It’s kind of beautiful seeing the effects love has on these characters. In all these films mentioned today, there is a connection as all of them show that love saves people, whether it is literally or emotionally.  .  

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Conclusion

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Iris: Well if no one has anything else they want to add, I’m going to end this episode. Just a quick recap, Disney films subconsciously taught us a lot of gender values. We can clearly see this by looking at earlier and later Disney princess films. Although gender values changed because society moved into a more progressive era regarding women’s independence and voice, the shift demonstrates which characteristics are now deemed good and which are now deemed unacceptable in society. 

 

Vivian: This is clearly seen as Cinderella’s submissiveness is unbearing to watch now and Rapunzel’s rebellion and strength is admired. Tiana on the other is a later Disney princess who is admired for her independent mindset. This same idea can be applied to another side of disney, Marvel as seen through Iron Man’s character development. Although his change doesn’t correlate with society changing, the development teaches the audience which traits are healthy and toxic. These small details work together to build our social construction of what gender is. So now I want you guys to think about how much these films affect how you developed and how it affected your gender values. Until next on Another Disney podcast. My names Vivian 

 

Iris: and I’m Iris and we’ll see you guys next week. Make sure to subscribe and donate something to the podcast if you want to continue hearing grown adults talking about Disney films.

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Sources

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Endgame. 2019. Director Joe Russo & Anthony Russo. USA

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Haas, Lynda & Trapedo, Shaina. Disney’s Magic Mirror: The Disney Corporation’s Impact on the Folk & Fairy Tale Genre. Google Docs, Google, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R3xlFjFWwxVagMsLw-BhgY2jHAPl7_WmoXbv5W6rLrE/edit.

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Tangled. 2010. Directors Nathan Greno, Byron Howard. USA.

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"The Hypermasculine Iron Man: A Man with a Heart." THEHEARTSTABLET. 15 December 2014. https://theheartstablet.wordpress.com/2014/12/15/the-hypermasculine-iron-man-a-man-with-a-heart/. Accessed 11 February 2020.

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